Maxey - Thrasher Debate
Eternal Destiny of the Wicked
Perpetual Torment or Ultimate Extinction
(An In-Depth Biblical Discussion)
Wednesday, February 13, 2002
Thomas Thrasher's Comments
on Death and Aionios
In concluding his second article, Al wrote: "The pathway to discovery is
laid out before us. It is now time to begin the journey." I am prepared to
do just that in the course of the present offering. Before doing so,
however, I will review a few remarks made by my friend.
TROUBLING PASSAGES
In his first article Al said, "After a couple of years of perhaps the most
intense and extensive study of a topic I have ever done, I had to admit
that Edward was basically right in his conclusions. In the years since, I
have continued to do research and study on this issue." Notice that Al's
study had been "intense and extensive" on our subject starting in the
1980's, and his "research and study" has continued "in the years since."
In his second article he states, "I am convinced the greater body of
evidence points to an ultimate Truth, even though I have yet to fully
reconcile to my own satisfaction a few troubling passages which seem, at
first glance, inconsistent with that Truth." He also says, "A couple of
passages still puzzle me somewhat and seem, at least on the surface, to
challenge my conclusions."
It appears to me that these "few troubling passages" not only seemed
inconsistent with Al's view "at first glance," but even after years of
intense study on this subject, he has not been able to "fully reconcile"
them! My brother, you have aroused my curiosity (and, no doubt, the
curiosity of many of our readers). What are these "few troubling passages"?
Please do not keep us in suspense!
Al overlooked my request that he "explain to us how Ed's views were wrong
(and, consequently, how Al's view is different from Ed's)." Instead, he
said, "Although Edward and I agree on many points, that is totally
irrelevant." The reason for my asking this was that many have read, or will
read, Ed's book (that Al brought up!). If Ed's conclusions are "basically
right," then they are evidently WRONG on some points. In fairness to the
readers of Ed's book, Al should inform us of those wrong conclusions so
that we can avoid being misled or confused by them, especially since Al
relies so heavily on The Fire That Consumes. Notice a few examples:
- Al quotes Clark Pinnock, "We cannot rest content with mere reiteration of
earlier insights. A theology which seeks only to restate the system of some
honored theological forerunner is less than fully biblical" (also cited by
Ed on page 34 of his book). By the way, I agree with this sentiment.
- Al quotes(?): "J. I. Packer, in Fundamentalism and The Word of God,
wrote: 'We must never become enslaved to human tradition, and assume the
complete rightness of our own established ways of thought and practice, and
in so doing excuse ourselves from the duty of testing and reforming them by
Scripture.'" I totally agree. It is interesting that Ed gives a more
extended quotation from this statement on page 435 of his book; however,
the wording of the two "quotations" is different! Ed's quote is from pages
69-70 of Packer's book. Al, from what page is your "quote"?
- Al quotes Donald Bloesch: "In the same way, when the NT speaks of
'eternal life,' the adjective 'aionios' refers to 'the QUALITY more than to
the length of life'" (also cited in The Fire That Consumes, page 42). I
disagree! The meaning of "aionios" will be studied later in this article.
- Al quotes Emmanuel Petavel, where he insists "these words qualify" (Ed
says, "this word qualifies") "objects of a temporary and limited nature ...
signifying only an indeterminate duration of which the maximum is fixed by
the intrinsic nature of the persons or things themselves" (Ed cites
Petavel's claim on page 39).
- Al quotes B. F. Westcott as saying about aionios, "The word speaks of
BEING, of which time is not a measure." However, when Ed gives the quote
(page 42), he does not include "The word speaks of" as part of the
quotation from Westcott. Has someone been careless in "quoting" here?
- Al quotes Alan Richardson, "The real point is the CHARACTER of the
punishment. It is that of the order of the Age to Come as contrasted with
any earthly penalties" (Checking page 42 of Ed's book will confirm that Al
is quoting Ed's citation from Richardson).
- Al quotes Joseph A. Baird's observation that punishment and fire may be
"peculiar to the realm and the nature of God" (cited by Ed on page 42).
- Al's six "'eternal' things which are NOT 'forever'" (his emphasis) are
taken from page 40 of Ed's book. I will examine such cases when considering
the Hebrew word 'olam in another article.
- Al quotes Charles Hodge: "If we believe the Bible to be the Word of God,
all we have to do is to ascertain what it teaches on this subject, and
humbly submit" (also quoted by Ed on page 34). AMEN!
It is obvious that Al relies heavily on The Fire That Consumes in the
defense of his position. Therefore, I call upon him to tell us how his
position differs from Ed's.
As urged by Hodge, I will seek to ascertain the meaning of DEATH and
AIONIOS to see if their use supports Al's assertions in his second article.
These words involve matters of significant difference between Al and me.
Investigation of other words crucial to our discussion will be undertaken
in subsequent articles.
WHAT IS DEATH?
Al says, "The ultimate destiny of the unredeemed is DEATH." I agree. He
also says, "I believe commitment to the lake of fire is a DEATH sentence,"
and again I agree. However, he assumes that "death" is extinction/annihilation/cessation
of existence.
This was also the case with Ed Fudge in The Fire That Consumes. I cite a
few instances of the "extinction" terminology from that book, endorsed by
Al as "basically right in his conclusions."
- "utter extinction into oblivion forever" (xiii)
- "irreversible (therefore endless) extinction" (198)
- "the everlasting loss of existence" (202)
- "final extinction" (433)
- "the total, everlasting extinction of the wicked" (436)
When people misunderstand or incorrectly define words, they usually reach
false conclusions. This is a fundamental problem of those who teach error.
Let us seek to understand what "death" is, according to the Scriptures.
In 1 Timothy 5:6 the apostle Paul wrote (the emphasis is mine):
- "But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is DEAD even while she
LIVES" (NASB).
- "...but the widow who lives for pleasure is DEAD even while she LIVES" (NRSV)
- "But she who lives in pleasure is DEAD while she LIVES" (NKJV)
- "...whereas she who is self-indulgent is DEAD even while she LIVES (RSV)
- "But she that giveth herself to pleasure is DEAD while she LIVETH" (ASV)
- "But she that liveth in pleasure is DEAD while she LIVETH" (KJV)
If "death" is "extinction," then how could this woman be DEAD while she was
LIVING? How can one EXIST and yet NOT EXIST at the same time? The truth is:
"Death" is not NON-EXISTENCE, it is SEPARATION! This woman in 1 Timothy 5:6
was DEAD spiritually (separated from God because of her sins), although she
was ALIVE physically (her spirit had not separated from her body).
"Death" in the New Testament is usually translated from "thanatos"
(Strong's #2288).
- "...death, is used in Scripture of: (a) the separation of the soul (the
spiritual part of man) from the body (the material part), the latter
ceasing to function and turning to dust ... (b) the separation of man from
God ... Death is the opposite of life; it never denotes non-existence. As
spiritual life is 'conscious existence in communion with God,' so spiritual
death is 'conscious existence in separation from God'" (An Expository
Dictionary of New Testament Words by W. E. Vine, vol. I, p. 276).
- Physical DEATH occurs when the spirit SEPARATES from the body: "the body
APART from the spirit is DEAD." (James 2:26, ASV). Luke 23:46, "And Jesus,
crying with a loud voice, said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit:
and having said this, he gave up the ghost." Genesis 35:18, "And it came to
pass, as her [Rachel's] soul was departing (for she died) ..."
- Paul wrote that Christians were DEAD to the law: "Wherefore, my brethren,
ye also were made DEAD to the law through the body of Christ; that ye
should be joined to another, even to him who was raised from the dead, that
we might bring forth fruit unto God" (Romans 7:4). Does this mean that
Christians are annihilated or become extinct? No!!! We are to serve God
SEPARATE from the law.
- Christians are to be DEAD to sin: "We who DIED to sin, how shall we any
longer live therein? ... Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be DEAD unto
sin, but alive unto God in Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:2, 11). We are to be
SEPARATED from sin, not live in it! "My little children, these things write
I unto you that ye may not sin" (1 John 2:1).
- Spiritual DEATH involves SEPARATION from God: "And you did he make alive,
when ye were DEAD through your trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1). They
were separated from God, but they were not extinct! Isaiah 59:2, "your
iniquities have SEPARATED between you and your God." Green states: "in
N. T., death ... spiritual condemnation, exclusion from salvation, the penal
state of loss of salvation" (A Greek-English Lexicon To The New Testament
by T. S. Green, p. 83).
- Likewise, "the second death" (Revelation 20:14) is an ETERNAL SEPARATION
from God. In the judgment Jesus will say to those on the left hand, "Depart
from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire (Matthew 25:41). "In the
spiritual sense death is a separation from God, or spiritual night ... The
second death ... is definitely final separation from God ... spiritual death,
or separation from fellowship with the Creator ... Consummation of the
judgment ushers in the second death, eternal and absolute separation from
God in the lake of fire and brimstone" (The Zondervan Pictorial Bible
Dictionary, p. 209).
My conclusion is that "death" is a SEPARATION, not an EXTINCTION as Al's
position on the eternal destiny of the wicked requires.
A STUDY OF THE GREEK WORD AIONIOS
I will list every occurrence of "aionios" in the New Testament. Notice how
this word is translated in the KJV (in UPPER CASE) and the ASV [in brackets].
- Matthew 18:8, "to be cast into EVERLASTING fire" ["eternal"]
- Matthew 19:16, "that I may have ETERNAL life?" ["eternal"]
- Matthew 19:29, "shall inherit EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- Matthew 25:41, "ye cursed, into EVERLASTING fire" ["eternal"]
- Matthew 25:46, "go away into EVERLASTING punishment" ["eternal"]
- Matthew 25:46, "but the righteous into life ETERNAL" ["eternal"]
- Mark 3:29, "in danger of ETERNAL damnation" ["eternal"]
- Mark 10:17, "that I may inherit ETERNAL life?" ["eternal"]
- Mark 10:30, "in the world to come ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Luke 10:25, "what shall I do to inherit ETERNAL life?" ["eternal"]
- Luke 16:9, "receive you into EVERLASTING habitations" ["eternal"]
- Luke 18:18, "what shall I do to inherit ETERNAL life?" ["eternal"]
- Luke 18:30, "in the world to come life EVERLASTING" ["eternal"]
- John 3:15, "not perish, but have ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- John 3:16, "not perish, but have EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 3:36, "believeth on the Son hath EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 4:14, "springing up into EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 4:36, "gathereth fruit unto life ETERNAL" ["eternal"]
- John 5:24, "that sent me, hath EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 5:39, "ye think ye have ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- John 6:27, "which endureth unto EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 6:40, "on him, may have EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 6:47, "believeth on me hath EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- John 6:54, "drinketh my blood, hath ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- John 6:68, "thou hast the words of ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- John 10:28, "I give unto them ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- John 12:25, "shall keep it unto life ETERNAL" ["eternal"]
- John 12:50, "his commandment is life EVERLASTING" ["eternal"]
- John 17:2, "he should give ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- John 17:3, "this is life ETERNAL" ["eternal"]
- Acts 13:46, "unworthy of EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- Acts 13:48, "as many as were ordained to ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Romans 2:7, "honour and immortality, ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Romans 5:21, "through righteousness unto ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Romans 6:22, "and the end EVERLASTING life" ["eternal"]
- Romans 6:23, "the gift of God is ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Romans 16:25, "kept secret since the WORLD began" ["kept in silence through
times eternal"]
- Romans 16:26, "commandment of the EVERLASTING God" ["eternal"]
- 2 Corinthians 4:17, "exceeding and ETERNAL weight of glory" ["eternal"]
- 2 Corinthians 4:18, "things which are not seen are ETERNAL" ["eternal"]
- 2 Corinthians 5:1, "with hands, ETERNAL in the heavens" ["eternal"]
- Galatians 6:8, "shall of the Spirit reap life EVERLASTING" ["eternal"]
- 2 Thessalonians 1:9, "be punished with EVERLASTING destruction" ["eternal"]
- 2 Thessalonians 2:16, "hath given us EVERLASTING consolation" ["eternal"]
- 1 Timothy 1:16, "believe on him to life EVERLASTING" ["eternal"]
- 1 Timothy 6:12, "lay hold on ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- 1 Timothy 6:16, "be honour and power EVERLASTING" ["eternal"]
- 1 Timothy 6:19, "they must lay hold on ETERNAL life" [not in ASV text]
- 2 Timothy 1:9, "in Christ Jesus before the WORLD began" ["in Christ Jesus
before times eternal"]
- 2 Timothy 2:10, "in Christ Jesus with ETERNAL glory" ["eternal"]
- Titus 1:2, "hope of ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Titus 1:2, "which God, that cannot lie, promised before the WORLD began"
["which God, who cannot lie, promised before times eternal"]
- Titus 3:7, "to the hope of ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Philemon 15, "thou shouldest receive him FOR EVER" ["for ever"]
- Hebrews 5:9, "the author of ETERNAL salvation" ["eternal"]
- Hebrews 6:2, "and of ETERNAL judgment" ["eternal"]
- Hebrews 9:12, "having obtained ETERNAL redemption" ["eternal"]
- Hebrews 9:14, "who through the ETERNAL Spirit" ["eternal"]
- Hebrews 9:15, "the promise of ETERNAL inheritance" ["eternal"]
- Hebrews 13:20, "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" ["eternal"]
- 1 Peter 5:10, "called us unto his ETERNAL glory" ["eternal"]
- 2 Peter 1:11, "into the EVERLASTING kingdom" ["eternal"]
- 1 John 1:2, "shew unto you that ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- 1 John 2:25, "promised us, even ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- 1 John 3:15, "no murderer hath ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- 1 John 5:11, "God hath given to us ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- 1 John 5:13, "know that ye have ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- 1 John 5:20, "the true God, and ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Jude 7, "suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL fire" ["eternal"]
- Jude 21, "Lord Jesus Christ unto ETERNAL life" ["eternal"]
- Revelation 14:6, "having the EVERLASTING gospel" ["eternal"]
As you see, in the great majority of cases, "aionios" is translated by the
word "eternal."
A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian
Literature (Bauer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker) defines "aionios" as "eternal"
and gives three subcategories: "without beginning," "without beginning or
end," and "without end." Matthew 18:8, 25:41, 25:46, Mark 3:29, 2
Thessalonians 1:9, and Hebrews 6:2 are all specifically listed in this
lexicon in category 3: "WITHOUT END"!
- Matthew 18:8, "EVERLASTING fire" -- the fire is without end!
- Matthew 25:41, "EVERLASTING fire" -- the fire is without end!
- Matthew 25:46, "EVERLASTING punishment" -- the punishment is without end!
- Mark 3:29, "ETERNAL damnation" -- the damnation is without end!
- 2 Thessalonians 1:9, "EVERLASTING destruction" -- the destruction is
without end!
- Hebrews 6:2, "ETERNAL judgment" -- the judgment is without end!
Apart from reliance upon a multitude of denominational authors (who have
scarcely a notion of the true scheme of redemption or of God's kingdom) and
a few brethren to whom such writers offer some sort of attractive appeal,
the Bible makes very clear the meaning of "aionios" with respect to:
- God -- He is eternal (Romans 16:26; Hebrews 9:14)
- Redemption -- It is eternal (Hebrews 9:12)
- Salvation -- It is eternal (Hebrews 5:9)
- Inheritance -- It is eternal (Hebrews 9:15)
- Kingdom -- It is eternal (2 Peter 1:11)
- Life -- It is eternal (Titus 1:2; 3:7; 1 John 2:25)
And also (as indicated above) with respect to:
- Fire, Punishment, Damnation, Destruction, and Judgment -- ETERNAL!
Let us persevere in warning the unregenerate and unfaithful about their
existence throughout eternity, rather than proclaiming a false hope of
their eventual EXTINCTION!
Home
Index