Energy Sources 2
I'd like to update the calculations I did earlier, and include a few handy conversion rules of thumb for anyone thinking about electric vehicles. These calculators are handy:
EIA Kids page
Convert-Me
100 hp = 74.6 kW = ~75 kW
155 lb-ft = ~210 N-m (the torque in a VW TDI 1.9 l engine)
The energy content of a gallon of gasoline is 130.88 MJ. The energy content of a 15 gallon tank of gasoline is 1963.2 MJ. That's also 545.3 kW-h. At $0.098/kW-h for electricity, that "tank" will cost about $53 from the Electric Company (makes gasoline look pretty cheap, eh?).
If you tried to use marine batteries with a 12 V charge and 255 A-h capacity (20 hour discharge rating), you would have to carry 178 such batteries with you. Um, well, actually, using a 1.4:1 charge efficiency (you have to put 40% more in than you get out), you have to carry 250 batteries with you. At 60 pounds apiece, they weigh about 15,000 pounds (6800 kg). It might take up some space, too. And, you're probably going to have to fill it daily with $53 worth of electricity.
If you fill it in 5 minutes, you're going to need 202 A per branch (28 of them, each with 9 batteries in series to drive a 108 V system). That's going to require 5600 A total! What if you take 8 hours to fill it, like at home or work? You still need 32 A per branch, or about 59 household circuits of 15 A each. You better leave for work a little early in the morning, because that's going to take some time to plug in! Of course, this is assuming that you want to fill all the way up the same way you do in a gas station. Electricity is different: the transmission grid is much more widely distributed than the gasoline "distribution" grid, so you can fill up a little at work, a little at home, and so on, rather than making one trip a week.
People running those electric vehicles are a little smug about it, acting as if they are getting something for nothing. The guy in Canada running a Prius on solar - maybe he is onto something. $0.21/kW-h for solar as opposed to $0.05/kW-h for gasoline, but still, at least it's clean (I don't know what the lifecycle costs for the solar panels are, offhand, but I think they pay for themselves within 7 years ... in places farther south than Canada). But the Californian who powers his off the grid? He is getting his energy from petrofuel-powered electricity. Only about 9% of the energy in the coal actually gets into his motor, so all he has discovered is an expensive way to shift the costs and pollution around. And a way to get a lot of attention.
I found one source who claimed that you need about 80 kW of power to accelerate an average car to 60 in 10 s or less. If I use a constant acceleration (2.58 m/s^2), I get 45 kW for a 4000 pound (1363 kg) car. 80 kW seems reasonable if you introduce some inefficiencies.
It is tough to compare internal combustion engines (ICE) and dc motors. A 100 hp (75 kW) gas burner probably gets 100 ft-lb of torque, and a 90 hp turbodiesel gets 155 ft-lb of torque, but a 18 kW (continuous) motor might get more like 100 ft-lb of torque, and it will start generating it at very low speeds. Still, a 75 kW dc motor is tough to find. Here is an example of an integrated electric motor conversion kit for a VW rabbit (the Voltsrabbit), and here is a dc "wheelmotor". The conversion kit includes the 20 kW motor, while the largest wheelmotor is 14.4 kW. So you just install 4, right?
Okay, so the thing is going to be underpowered, and the batteries are going to weigh a ton. Well, more like 7 tons. So isn't there a better way to power the system? I see that the average price you can expect for a PEM fuel cell stack is about $6000-$11,000 for a 1 kW stack. Given that the average engine is said to cost $3000 for a 100 kW engine, that says prices need to be in the $30/kW range for fuel cells to be competitive (I've seen the figure $40/kW in several places 'round the net). I'll be generous and assume the current $7/W is double the manufacturing cost, so they only need a 10 x improvement in cost performance. That's one reason for the skepticism about hydrogen power.
The other reason is the hydrogen itself - where is it going to come from? From what I can tell, even from reading Winning the Oil Endgame, it's going to come from oil or other fossil fuels. So, uh, what is the benefit?
I think this only emphasizes the point that if we want to see more efficient vehicles, we need them to be a lot lighter. With a car that weighs half the one you have now, you can have a motor half as large to get the same performance. That 4 x 14 kW wheelmotor setup (56 kW) becomes feasible.
EIA Kids page
Convert-Me
100 hp = 74.6 kW = ~75 kW
155 lb-ft = ~210 N-m (the torque in a VW TDI 1.9 l engine)
The energy content of a gallon of gasoline is 130.88 MJ. The energy content of a 15 gallon tank of gasoline is 1963.2 MJ. That's also 545.3 kW-h. At $0.098/kW-h for electricity, that "tank" will cost about $53 from the Electric Company (makes gasoline look pretty cheap, eh?).
If you tried to use marine batteries with a 12 V charge and 255 A-h capacity (20 hour discharge rating), you would have to carry 178 such batteries with you. Um, well, actually, using a 1.4:1 charge efficiency (you have to put 40% more in than you get out), you have to carry 250 batteries with you. At 60 pounds apiece, they weigh about 15,000 pounds (6800 kg). It might take up some space, too. And, you're probably going to have to fill it daily with $53 worth of electricity.
If you fill it in 5 minutes, you're going to need 202 A per branch (28 of them, each with 9 batteries in series to drive a 108 V system). That's going to require 5600 A total! What if you take 8 hours to fill it, like at home or work? You still need 32 A per branch, or about 59 household circuits of 15 A each. You better leave for work a little early in the morning, because that's going to take some time to plug in! Of course, this is assuming that you want to fill all the way up the same way you do in a gas station. Electricity is different: the transmission grid is much more widely distributed than the gasoline "distribution" grid, so you can fill up a little at work, a little at home, and so on, rather than making one trip a week.
People running those electric vehicles are a little smug about it, acting as if they are getting something for nothing. The guy in Canada running a Prius on solar - maybe he is onto something. $0.21/kW-h for solar as opposed to $0.05/kW-h for gasoline, but still, at least it's clean (I don't know what the lifecycle costs for the solar panels are, offhand, but I think they pay for themselves within 7 years ... in places farther south than Canada). But the Californian who powers his off the grid? He is getting his energy from petrofuel-powered electricity. Only about 9% of the energy in the coal actually gets into his motor, so all he has discovered is an expensive way to shift the costs and pollution around. And a way to get a lot of attention.
I found one source who claimed that you need about 80 kW of power to accelerate an average car to 60 in 10 s or less. If I use a constant acceleration (2.58 m/s^2), I get 45 kW for a 4000 pound (1363 kg) car. 80 kW seems reasonable if you introduce some inefficiencies.
It is tough to compare internal combustion engines (ICE) and dc motors. A 100 hp (75 kW) gas burner probably gets 100 ft-lb of torque, and a 90 hp turbodiesel gets 155 ft-lb of torque, but a 18 kW (continuous) motor might get more like 100 ft-lb of torque, and it will start generating it at very low speeds. Still, a 75 kW dc motor is tough to find. Here is an example of an integrated electric motor conversion kit for a VW rabbit (the Voltsrabbit), and here is a dc "wheelmotor". The conversion kit includes the 20 kW motor, while the largest wheelmotor is 14.4 kW. So you just install 4, right?
Okay, so the thing is going to be underpowered, and the batteries are going to weigh a ton. Well, more like 7 tons. So isn't there a better way to power the system? I see that the average price you can expect for a PEM fuel cell stack is about $6000-$11,000 for a 1 kW stack. Given that the average engine is said to cost $3000 for a 100 kW engine, that says prices need to be in the $30/kW range for fuel cells to be competitive (I've seen the figure $40/kW in several places 'round the net). I'll be generous and assume the current $7/W is double the manufacturing cost, so they only need a 10 x improvement in cost performance. That's one reason for the skepticism about hydrogen power.
The other reason is the hydrogen itself - where is it going to come from? From what I can tell, even from reading Winning the Oil Endgame, it's going to come from oil or other fossil fuels. So, uh, what is the benefit?
I think this only emphasizes the point that if we want to see more efficient vehicles, we need them to be a lot lighter. With a car that weighs half the one you have now, you can have a motor half as large to get the same performance. That 4 x 14 kW wheelmotor setup (56 kW) becomes feasible.
Labels: energy




